For two males have any sort of sexual relationship, then they have to give up the deeply ingrained values that have been shoved down their throats since childhood, and that is why most men can’t understand why gays are like they are,(To understand someone, you first have to put yourself in their shoes, they can certainly put themselve into the shoes of lesbians, and see what it is that they like about their relationship; but men aren’t about to go that far with a gay relationship.)

Love is unisexual, it flows between the sexes with easy, the sexual act on the other hand isn’t, and it takes a special person to be comfortable with both.

I’ll give a senario:- You see two teenage girls walking down the street hand in hand and laughing, You see two teenage boys walking down the same street laughing and pushing and shoving each other. Which of these teen couples are homosexual? Answer. Most likely neither, but if you were to swap the senario, and have the boys holding hands, and the girl pushing and shoving; then you’d be in your right to say the boys were gay.

Tell me why, women can get away with anything a male does and yet a male gets snotted for even thinking about being even remotely feminine. If a male wears any sort of feminine attire he’s branded as a transvestite and shund be society, and yet women wear mens clothing all they like with impunity, and no scaring to her femininity. Men seen showing any sort of caring and tenderness is seen as weak, where women taking the dominant roll is seen as a self-assured and strong, a go getter.
There are inequalities in life, and the one between the sexes is the most appauling of them all.
Ian

Typically, men respond to visual imagery, being voyeuristic in nature, seeing two women in the act of sex is stimulating to the senses.

Women on the other hand, do not usually respond so positively to visual stimulus so, it stands to reason that movie makers will cater to the prevailing market.

It is true that women will form a closer bond with another woman and perhaps share touchy feely moments where this is almost aborrent to men, all to do with conditioning. Men are guided towards competion and macho pursuit, women are not.

But of course, the exception proves the rule; I don’t mind either way and truly am bi.

I think homosexual experimentation at a young age is relatively common amoung people of both genders, but physical intimacy tends to be intentionally cut off between men around the age of puberty. There seems to be two conversations going on here – one about sex, and the other about intimate affection. I don’t think that more women are necessarily *sexually* attracted to one another than men are, I just think that they’re more comfortable and accepted as being physically intimate with one another (i.e., holding hands, cuddling, kissing). In response to the very heterosexual guy, I think you’re right in that most people aren’t sexually attracted to members of their own gender; but I also think that it’s mostly in men that the violent/fearful aversion to intimate contact is seen.

By the way: 28%?! I think that statistic may have been for how many women have had or would consider having a homosexual experience. I don’t think that one of every four women I know is as likely to end up in a relationship with another woman as she is to be in one with a guy.

I do find the idea about all people, when infants, having intimate physical contact with their mothers is interesting. To further the ‘nature vs. nurture’ idea, it also seems to be true that fathers are expected to stop being physically loving to their sons at a very early age. In many cases it seems that whereas mothers continue to kiss and hold their children of both genders basically as long as they’ll let her, fathers and sons are often reduced to the occasional hug goodbye or handshake by the age of 8 or so. I think the last time my dad kissed me on the lips was when I was about 10, and I could already pick up on the “I don’t know if this is okay” vibe from him.

I don’t think penetration has much to do with it. The ‘okay vs. not-okay’ judgement is made long before actual intercourse is even a remote possibility. If penetration was the issue then men would be perfectly fine being as loving to one another as women are, but only women would get to the sex. Obviously not the case.

Oh, and the reproduction thing makes no sense either. Ecological success is based on two factors: the gain or loss of energy (calories), and the possible propagation of one’s genes. Since no one is gonna get pregnant from a homosexual experience, and since nothing is lost in terms of energy or possible gene propagation for either gender, then there’s no reason bi-sexuality would be more desirable for one gender than the other. I suppose if you mean that in chasing each other, males have less time to chase females, that’s marginally true, but it doesn’t hold much water unless men were spending a ton of time trying to impress one another – sex itself “wastes” nothing more than a bit of time and some semen, which is of course “wasted” all the time anyway…

By the way… I’d take The Pepsi Challenge on that pussy-eating comment any day of the week (“No one can eat pussy like a woman”). I can get sworn statements, too. :)

It does at my house…

is it so hard to simply except the fact that some people are attracted to the same sex and others are not?

while culture and society can be big influences with regard to sexuality, perhaps it is really time for us to simply accept the idea that some people simply have no sexual interest in the same sex.

responding to Star and particularly the lsat paragraph i would put this forward for consideration:
maybe instead of “civilization advances” we could say “civilization changes”.

i say this because the scrambling of traditional and biological roles may not necesarily be “advancement”.

many traditions in history have been harmful and correctly put to their deaths, but i have to wonder if the entire debate about bi/homosexuality isnt just another way for people who feel guilt over their choices to “justify” them.
Folks, do what you like and let others feel guilt. as long as two consenting adults are involved their isnt anything to feel guilty about.

It’s interesting too that we are descended from bonobo chimpanzes, almost all of whose females are bi-sexual and with an equally low number of males (5%) being bi. Observers note that a male and female will often compete for the same female in the wild.

According to some sociologists and feminists the sexual difference and problems between human men and women lies largely in the fact that women define themselves positively as nurturers and mothers among other things, and their femininity is far more creatively displayed than men’s masculinity because men define themselves negatively as ‘not-a-woman’. Hence to be a ‘man’ is to have no feminine characteristics at all, if possible.

In ancient Greece and Rome it was okay to fuck a homosexual but it was the greatest of social faux pas’s to be fucked by one.
Lacking a positive identity for themselves
men are therefore appalled by men who take on feminine traits or roles. As women continue to occupy positions now of power and responsibilty and take over many of the jobs once done only by males their sense of identity is further jeopordized and diminished, leaving them to ask just what it is to be a ‘man’ anymore?

Traditionally men have been the hunters and protectors but those roles have diminished greatly as civilization advances, and many men find themselves now having a serious identity crisis. Some react with rage at the newly aquired power and built in meaning (to help create and bring new life into the world) that women’s lives have and that theirs now lack. Others adjust and take up the challenge of defining their masculinity in positive terms. Regardless, this results in men having no problem condoning women to have sex with each other (especially if it’s done for the males benefit)as it poses no direct threat to their identity as ‘not-a-woman’. Male bi and homosexuality certainly does and triggers very deep atavistic responses of first fear, then disgust, and moving from there sometimes to rage and violence.

A continual security problem in lesbian email groups: screening to keep the male masturbators out.

Women are, by nature, social. Men are, by nature, competitive. Women, to other women, are companions already. Women, to men are the prize.

Men, to other men, are the enemy. Men, to women, are the facilitator of a basic biological urge.

It gets veneered with society and culture, but at the core, men are out to keep other men away, and women are out to keep people – any people – close by.

M.

In the reproduction stakes males compete with each other to pass thier genes to the next generation so if you have a group of guys chasing 1 girl then only 1 guy can impregnate her. On the other hand if you have a group of girls chsing a guy he can impregnate all of them so there is less competition. Reality lies between the two extremes.

Being an (generally) young Dutch openly gay male myself, I still do not flaunt my tendencies. Most people do not notice. When I and my partner of 6 years occasionally show affection in public, we get called names, get laughed at or see people turn pale on us, but I always keep a fairly natural attitude. That seems to work for me, especially when not in public. As I do not make a fuss about it, it would seem very out of place if others would. However, I never start on the subject myself, and give only hints. It happened to me once that a new friend of mine, the only person in the group that was not aware of my being gay, asked about my girlfriend. I asked him, what girlfriend?, and he replied: well, as you were talking about your inlaws, you must have a girlfriend. Everyone burst out into laughter and he felt a little embarassed. It was just funny, not painful.

BTW, if you count the amount of replies to this post, I think you have a fairly representative cross-section of human kind. Mostly straight men and women, some bi and even less gay. Funny thing.

I met very few girls or women who are completely turned off by my subtle lesbian advances. For certain they didn’t all fall in bed with me, in fact most didn’t, but neither did they run away in terror. I think, deep down, they’re appreciative of being disired, even from someone of the same sex. And if you are lucky enough to hit on them at the right time, right place, and the right frame of mind, you may be fortunate to have sex with a first timer. It may be their last and only time they’ll have sex with another woman, but it will be you they experience it with.

My philosophy is if you don’t ask, you don’t receive. This is not to say I walk up to someone and ask if they’ll have sex with me…my approach is more subtle and refined than that, but I’m assuming you get my meaning. Sometimes it takes just hours, other times it takes days, even weeks to gently move them to the right frame of mind. Sometimes I think the long seduction in more pleasurable than the sex act itself…

The easy ones are women who have thought about it many times, the opportunity never presented itself to them. They are so assimilated in their hetrosexual world they appear unapproachable. I’ve found that these are the women with the kinky fetishes…

I occasionally will fuck a man if he has an extremely large cock. I’ve never tried to analyze this particular quirk of mine, but a clean, reasonably attractive man with a large dick turns me on. I’m sure some men reading this will be curious as to what I consider large. Eight inches, or more…and thick…that’s my idea of a desirous cock. I don’t care for an uncircumsized cock either. Most men are pigs, and an uncircumsized cock not properly cleaned is an absolute turn off to me.

I’ve only done a three way with a married couple twice. In both instances the wives were beautiful, and my entire interest was in them. But, in both cases, I allowed the husband to fuck me, really just because they was there and allowing me to have sex with his wife. One of the husbands was well endowed, and not surprisingly, I had an orgasm with him…

My choice of women vary, but by and large I think I’m attracted to any woman that is also attractive to men. Consequently, butch dykes are not my cup of tea. They tend to be male wannabes without the cock. I’m attracted to very effeminate women…

I’m also drawn to women in power, take charge women who have some degree of intelligence. I become extremely submissive with this type of woman…otherwise, I’m usually the dominate female in most of my relationships.

I don’t particularly like toys, the exception being the large rubber, life like cocks. I don’t use them on myself, but I will let other women use them on me, especially if I’m the submissive in the relationship.

I’ve never been in love with a woman. I enjoy their companionship and sexual relations. I’ve had women love me, and express it in no uncertain terms, but I’ve never been able to reciprocate. If a relationship I’m in ends, I move on. No tears, no regrets. I can’t say that about some of the women I’ve ended relationships with.

My dad was the most loving and supporting father a girl could ever have. I love him with all my heart. Curiously, when I was 16, I fantacized about fucking him. I always thought it strange I could even imagine having sex with him. Fortunately that odd phase in my life came and went…but I’m still curious about it.

I’ve done a lot of kinky things in my life, none of which I feel guilty or ashamed about. Some things I did for my own pleasure, other things for my partners pleasure. I’m sure they would be considered sick in some circles, but in the heat of the moment, I think everyone is susceptable to almost anything when yearning for that moment of pleasure.

I tried a little bi action early on at my wife’s instigation and liked it. It didn’t turn my wrists limp or give me an instant lisp. I discovered that homophobia is all in the mind of the beholder. The practical application of man pleasing man was…well, pleasing.

Over the years, we’ve met and fucked with a variety of nice guys. Most of them, when comfortable enough to talk about fantasies and such, don’t mind revealing a curiousity about, or desire to experiment with, the bi side of life. Some have had experiences before we met them, some have not. With two or three exceptions, our friends have enjoyed some level of overt male to male sex with me while spending time with us. Some giving, some receiving, mostly both.

My wife loves it.

I think that the strongest feelings against having “gay” relationships is the fear of being found out by what is perceived as a society hostile to gays. Not so much the self image that goes with it or aversion to the acts involved.

I will admit that my sample group has been skewed abit. Any man that enters into a threesome relationship with a couple is probably much more adventursome than his celebate or monogamous brethren.